tv The Last Word MSNBC January 30, 2013 1:00am-2:00am EST
for me, what it will be like next week when i wake up. i have nowhere to go, and maybe i'll go back to sleep for a change. >> andrea mitchell, one-on-one interview with hillary clinton for the rest of that interview, watch andrea mitchell reports tomorrow at 1:00 eastern right here on msnbc. if you are at work or school while it happens, set your dvr, 1:00 tomorrow. that does it for us, now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell, have a great night. the president went to the southwest today to deliver a major speech and we are bringing you "the last word" tonight from even further southwest, way down here in old mexico. los angeles, california, which of course used to be part of mexico until we took it by force, and then started building fences to keep mexicans out of old mexico. >> i'm here today because the time has come. >> right now the president is in
the air. >> for common sense. >> he is expected to lay out his own vision. >> outline his immigration priorities. >> immigration reform. >> the immigration. >> immigration. >> immigration reform. >> our immigration system is broken. >> we need congress to act. >> the issue of immigration is not a simple one. >> look, senator, rubio is for it. >> he is now the emissary. >> the face of the national tea party. >> i think we'll do a tremendous service to our country. >> they may get a deal on immigration. >> it wouldn't be a quick process, but will be a fair process. >> the so-called embrace of immigration reform, but not so fast. >> why are we doing this? the president is in las vegas today. >> back in las vegas. >> he imposes enforcement. >> i believe we need to stay focused on enforcement. >> democrats are not interested in border security. >> that means to continue to
strengthen the border security. >> the path to citizenship is a long and arduous one. >> we have to enact a comprehensive immigration reform. >> we are committed to a comprehensive approach. >> i think we're all out there alone folks. >> the question is now simple. do we have the resolve? i believe that we do. i believe that we do. >> president obama went to a high school today in what used to be mexico, las vegas, nevada, to urge congress to overhaul the immigration system. >> today i'm laying out my ideas for immigration reform. and my hope is that this provides some key markers to members of congress as they craft a bill. because the ideas i'm proposing have traditionally been supported by both democrats like ted kennedy and republicans like
president george w. bush. you don't get that matchup very often. >> the president's plan is similar to the plan eight bipartisan senators put forward yesterday, but it has not even cleared the path to citizenship for the 11 million illegal immigrants in the united states now. >> for comprehensive immigration reform to work, it must be clear from the outset that there is a path to citizenship. we have got to lay out a path. a process that includes passing a background check. paying taxes, paying a penalty. learning english. and then going to the back of the line behind all the folks who are trying to come here legally. that is only fair. all right. >> under the president's proposal, undocumented workers would be required to register, submit to background checks, pay fees and penalties, learn english and have their paperwork start at the back of the
immigration processing line. senator john mccain released a statement saying while there are some differences in our approaches to this issue, we share the belief that any reform must recognize america as a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants. we should all agree that border security and enforcement is particularly important. house speaker john boehner released a statement saying we hope the president is careful not to drag the debate to the left. and ultimately disrupt the difficult work that is ahead in the house and senate. the president made it clear he is going to keep the pressure on congress. >> if congress is unable to move forward in a timely fashion, i will send up a bill based on my proposal and insist that they vote on it right away. >> joining me now is msnbc's joy reid and richard wolff, and the organizer at united we dream. joy, what is the main difference
between the president's plan and the other introduced yesterday? >> well, the main difference is triggers that seems to be you can do whatever you want if there is a trigger. and for the republicans they believe you have to do significant border enforcement first, and whoever decides they have deemed enforcement to be sufficient then you can allow people to get a path to citizenship. so it is basically probation, the 11 million undocumented people in the country would be on probation, but wouldn't get the pathway to citizenship until this decision is made that enforcement is sufficient. >> let's listen to a little what the president said about being a nation of immigrants. >> unless you're one of the first immigrants, the natives, you came from a land of immigrants, the germans, the
irish, the polish, the russians, the chinese, the japanese, the huddled masses who came through ellis island on one coast. all of those folks, before there were us, there were them. >> richard wolff, he certainly has talked -- about us -- you found your path to citizenship. >> that is true. >> is the president going to have to continue to go out and try to sell this plan outside of washington? what do you see as the game plan between selling it inside washington and outside washington? >> well, let me just start by picking that up, okay? because a personal note here, as somebody who has gone through immigration process i have to say this country is unique.
and uniquely proud of immigrants and immigration. and one of of the striking things for me in the naturalization ceremony was how the judge, the presiding judge who swore us all in as american citizens said you new immigrants are the essence of this country. i think that is an incredibly important thing for the president to say at this time. and that is what he was saying. that the spirit of this country is renewed, captured by the immigrants who built this country. so you know, that is what presidents have to do. they have to capture the narrative. it has been a running theme for this president to place himself inside the story of immigrants coming to make their fortune and succeeding against the odds. that is the american spirit. so that is the back drop for this debate that these people are not aliens. they are not illegals. they are part and parcel of the fabric of this country. so i think that is a very important presidential moment. and it does help to shift the
debate in what is almost certain to be a nativist back lash from the very forces that undermined president bush's immigration reform proposals. >> so what does this mean for you? >> first of all, are lawrence, i want to thank you for having me on your show. for example, three weeks ago, other dream organizers and myself didn't sleep because we were mobilizing to stop the deportation of our friends. it took hundreds of calls, thousands of petitions and signatures just to stop a bus full of people to stop one person from getting deported. and that bus continues to deport the rest of the families and separate the rest of the families included on that bus. so to hear president obama say we need more of this enforcent is a little bit outrageous. i think we have been enforced
enough on as a community. and the time has come to really address the situation and what to do with our americans that are here, living, contributing to the society. the time has come to keep families together. >> joy, what celso mentioned is one of the bipartisan pillars of the community. chuck schumer and others said tough but fair, they want to emphasize the tough, enforcing it. president obama has been as tough on our southern border as any president has ever been. >> you know, exactly, the president established in the first term being very tough on border, more so than george w. bush. and the constant talk of being tough, that gets the republicans to sign on to the bill. the enforcement part of it is already built in, this administration is already doing it. what is needed now is a sane path to legalization, which the
president, the difference between him now and republicans and people like marco rubio are complaining, the republicans are making it like probation, it doesn't make sense, these are people already here, working paying taxes, sales taxes, et cetera, whose children are in school. if it is all about keeping families together at the end of the day republicans understand they're going to have to do this. it is just a matter of what you have to put in there language-wise to make it palatable to enough senate republicans to make it pass. >> let's hear what senator rubio says today. >> he doesn't want enforcement before we have thereen card path. that would be a terrible mistake. for the president to try to move the goal post on that specific requirement as an example doesn't bode well in what his term is going to be. >> richard wolff i think we have to get used to that kind of talk
in this debate. because what marco rubio can't do every day is say i agree with president obama. i agree with president obama. he has got to find the spots where he can claim he is to the right of president obama like on this -- what i don't think is a very big distinction on the whole enforcement side. >> it is not, unless you're prepared to militarize and fence the entire southern border of the united states, no, we're not talking about a big difference, but yes, he has to use the president as a foil and criticize him. actually, the real issue is the employment verification. and there is agreement on that, too, if they want to have a fight it is like a wrestling match, go ahead and pretend you're hitting each other on the head. but in the end we know who the winner is going to be and where it is declared. >> celso, what is your hope on where this ends up? >> i want to put it in perspective, based on obama's speech. based on the deportation
numbers, 400,000 families get separated. 19 families were separated while he spoke. this needs to add real urgency to the fact that families are being separated as we speak right now. so we really need to make sure the president and congress is serious about creating a solution for the community that is here right now, suffering under the current enforcement-only policies that are currently in existence right now. >> joy reid, richard wolff and celso, thank you for joining us. >> first, one of the leaders of the bipartisan group, marco rubio calls into rush limbaugh's radio show. and now i don't have any idea what rush limbaugh thinks about this anymore. republicans versus republicans. and then, the father of one of the children killed in the newtown massacre testifies about the murder of his son.
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so marco rubio called into rush limbaugh's radio program today, and i'm not sure who kissed whose ring, or if they kissed at all. you can decide later, coming up. and later, one republican suggests on how to fix the republican party. one says let's break it open, and we'll have two republican parties, coming up. [ cheeping ] [ male announcer ] you hear that?
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diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. >> i don't see where there is any -- commonalty in what the president wants and what you want. >> you know, rush, that is an important point, the president has an interesting decision to make when he gives a speech. he can either decide he wants to be a part of the solution or a trigger to start a bidding war. i don't want to be a part of a bidding war to become the most lenient path forward. >> that was senator marco rubio?
he said at some point he didn't understand why president obama went out to las vegas to make the speech. why didn't he do it at the white house? and i just want to put up for the auence a map of what was once mexico. i'm sitting in los angeles doing this show. you're in las vegas, we are both sitting in old mexico. so do you want to help out marco rubio as to some idea why president obama would have come out to old mexico to make that speech today. >> well, you know, it is funny, marco rubio used to live in las vegas, he still has relatives here. in fact, his cousin is the first hispanic leader of the state senate here. so he is very familiar of why the president came out here. so that was just a very foolish thing for him to say, considering his familiarity with las vegas.
>> and i remember, rush limbaugh seemed so thrilled to get marco rubio on and actually start to talk about this. that the tough-talking rush of yesterday kind of slid over and just kind of let rubio do his thing. >> that is what i heard, the tone was very warm, rush put up some questions. but they were not designed to trap or ensnare. and i think we are witnessing today a really important breakthrough. i think it is a very good thing for america. probably if it continues and turns into any kind of real immigration compromise it is probably on balance, bad for the democratic party which has benefitted so heartily, this is what good demographics look like, where we move past the partisan or electoral issues and get real compromise. one thing marco said, 40% of the undocumented workers in this
country came here legally. they came here and their green card or otherwise expired. we're talking about people who didn't come here illegally and we have to try to way to accommodate them. >> i want to show you how confused rush limbaugh is at this point. i want you to listen to something he said yesterday where he said the plan is an amnesty plan. >> i don't think that "fox news" is that invested in this. but i don't think there is any republican opposition to this, of any majority consequence or size. we'll have to wait and see and find out. >> and here is rush limbaugh today saying you didn't hear what he said yesterday. >> i didn't say that. did i -- did you hear me say that?
i want to call on fox news and others to join me in defeating this plan. i don't recall saying that. that doesn't matter -- i'm quoted as saying things i never said constantly. but you see it is out there. >> john ralston, that is how much rush folded up his tent today on this whole issue. and i think ari has a very serious point here, if that is all it takes, marco rubio calling into rush limbaugh's show, if that is all it takes to mute rush limbaugh on this subject, it seems like real progress is possible here. >> well, lawrence, i mean, the whole point of that was for marco rubio to go on rush's show and try to walk this fine line that he is trying to walk. and they -- rush said to him. you can read the whole transcript but distill it down to, can we find a way to demonize the president. well, i think we can.
they're dealt a losing hand here, lawrence, he can talk about a bidding war but the president and democrats hold all the cards here. and marco rubio, at some level after going and kissing rush limbaugh's ring, has to realize that. >> and ari, as we said in the previous segment, we'll hear more of this. rubio can't say look, i'm at least 90% agreeing with the president. he can't do that. he has to do what john is saying. he will have to find some way to say demonizing things about the president obama while on the policy he is actually working toward an agreement on with him. >> yeah, if you look at the details, at the end of the interview there was an attempt to loop in the affordable care act and other issues to hit those conservative contrasts. but look, what i heard from the white house today and officials
speaking on background was that they don't want to focus on what they consider small contrasts between the white house proposal, what the gang of eight and rubio have put out there. what they see, i think is tremendous movement in rhetoric and now at least broad strokes, policy. and so this is a real chance to move forward on that and to get something done. and one other quick point, i'm so glad in the previous segment you had on a "dream act" organizer. because there is something amazing going on here. we have folks who don't even have political rights, voting rights in the country who still stood up and used their voice to exercise first amendment rights, which thank goodness is available to noncitizens. and engage in this conversation. i think the last time we saw it in depth was in the civil rights era, where again you had an attack on people's status. and yet they still found ways to get heard, be heard, and affect washington, which is so hard to do. so i'm pretty excited about what we're seeing today.
>> coming up, a child is murdered and that child's father is heckled because he dares to say that these weapons of mass murder and massacre are not needed by anyone. that is going to be in tonight's rewrite. and we are now just 11 hours away from learning who will replace john kerry in the united states senate. governor patrick has indicated he will make that announcement tomorrow morning. that is coming up. in america today we're running out of a vital resource we need
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embarrassment texas voters have sent to the united states senate, and from an oklahoma senator who could easily lose a spelling bee if asked to spell secretary or state. john kerry's resignation letter to governor deval patrick, wrote, to inform you of the privilege for serving them 28 years, and with great pride what i've been able to contribute to massachusetts and our country, i hereby resign my seat in the senate, effective friday, in order to assume the responsibility of secretary of state. john kerry will make his final speech on the senate floor tomorrow. and governor patrick has indicated he will announce his choice for interim senator tomorrow. as the governor well knows i have been insisting on this program for weeks now there is only one person who the governor could choose who would be ready to take over the senate seat at
4:30, only one person who already knows everything there is to know about how congress works, and how to get things done. only one person who has the experience to do that and properly represent the people of massachusetts in congress, in the process, and that is of course barney frank, the political media in boston seems convinced the governor will not choose barney frank, but the governor has committed to join me on this program for his first national interview after he makes his announcement. so if the governor doesn't choose barney, that is going to be like a wicked weird segment. coming up. they have admitted they're the stupid party, but how do they fix that problem? one republican says let the stupid ones have their own party. and in the rewrite, what
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we have got to stop being the stupid party. >> in the spotlight tonight, advice to the stupid party, weekly standard editor bill crystal had this advice on how republicans can stop being the stupid party. >> you have to have some answer to what would you replace dodd frank with? mitt romney didn't commit to a replacement for obama care and the health care fund. a lot of conservatives blame the american public for what happened in 2012, but if you're just a member of the american public, what is the replacement, well, we don't want to get into that right now, that is not a serious governing party. >> his answer on how republicans can stop being the stupid party was to urge them to be impure.
>> the republican party will never get back from the wilderness if it just says we have to keep our brand purer and make sure americans know we're the party of small government. americans are pretty confident right now in the post-paul ryan era that the republican party is the party of small government. and they didn't vote for the republican party even with paul ryan on the ticket. >> but when faced with how the republicans can stop being the stupid party, david brooks in "the new york times" responded with this, it is probably futile to change republicans, it is probably smarter to build a new wing of the republican party. the new republican party that david brooks envisions, one that can compete in the midwest, the east coast states, and the upper midwest. that would be filled with people who re-coiled over president obama's success, but who don't share the absolute
anti-government story of the current gop. this is really the only chance republicans have. joining me now is howard fineman, the editorial director of "the huffington post." howard, it sounds like david brooks is talking about the republican party of oh, i don't know, about 20 years ago, when they did indeed have new england senators, oregon republican senators, exactly that geographic description of where he would like to see republicans succeed. >> well, it is my sad duty to inform david that theodore roosevelt is dead, nelson rockefeller is dead, and yes, even richard nixon is dead. this republican party, he can attach whatever wings he wants to, i read his article carefully. he is brilliant, a writer about brain behavior.
partisan politics, i'm not sure. this republican party is what it is, although interestingly, the republican party as it is right now, based in the south and the midwest, being what it is in the sort of ronald reagan-bush family image is moving very rapidly. don't forget, lawrence, within the last couple of weeks they caved on the fiscal cliff, at least temporarily. they just voted in john kerry by 94 to 3. and leaving aside the guys from texas and oklahoma, all the other republicans voted for john kerry. and they're moving very quickly on immigration. so i think on the one hand the party in its guts, in its roots is not about to change any time soon. and they can forget about the old northeastern republicans. on the other hand, they have looked into the abyss, i think, and they have seen that they have to change. i was at an event over the weekend with jim baker, who had
been ronald reagan's chief of staff, who won the gore-bush thing down in 2000, and he said to me, you're a political analyst, tell me, what does the republican party need to do to recoup? and my one word answer was hope, they need to get to a one-word answer of hope, not rejections. >> and they have to get around the issue of rape, saying well, if women get raped, they have automatic chemical defenses, just really, stupid, crazy stuff. that is where their stupidest stuff got said. and what is interesting about it, the policies that todd akin actually favors as a result of that thinking are mainstream republican anti-abortion policies with no exceptions. >> well, here is the problem that the republicans have.
whatever energy they have got, and there is some, is at the crazy end of the grass roots right now, whether it is the todd akin part or whether it is the tea party rejection, they have gone kind of extreme. and they don't have either the structure or the family clout as the bushes had, or the personality of ronald reagan to take the energy of the crazies and bring it back to the middle. kind of use the motive power of that extreme grass roots, drag it back to the center and make it a national movement under the banner of hope and opportunity and individuality and freedom. they don't have somebody who can do it right now. they don't need to bring back nelson rockefeller. that is never going to happen. but they have to do the other stuff in order to be back in the conversation. and they have got to somehow say that the problem with government
is not government, per se. but the government is poorly run. the government is wasteful. government doesn't use business principles. that government is not in the 20th century. and whichever party can bring government, the welfare state for want of a better term, into the 21th century is going to rule the day. the democrats haven't done it. they have unions and old technology to deal with. you would think the republicans that care about business and technology and are supposedly entrepreneurs, they can't do it. until somebody can articulate it, they're going to get nowhere. >> howard fineman, thank you for joining us. >> thanks lawrence. coming up, when a father of a first grader killed in newtown, connecticut, wants to know why people need high-powered magazines, he gets heckled by some. and a preview of what wayne lapierre will actually tell a
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the father of one of the first graders murdered in newtown, connecticut, asked a question that gun nuts in the room couldn't answer. so they heckled him instead, you will see that happen in an astonishing video next in the rewrite. and so on this the 46th day how could a luminous protein in jellyfish, impact life expectancy in the u.s., real estate in hong kong, and the optics industry in germany? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing.
graders and six educators in newtown, connecticut, it has come to this. father of newtown victim heckled at hearing. neil hesslin, whose six-year-old son, jesse, was shot to death at sandy hook elementary school, testified at the general assembly's bipartisan task force event. the hearing was attended by other parents of sandy hook, and it was attended by members and opponents of any form of ammunition or gun control. here is what led to a grieving father being heckled by the gun-worshipping fanatics in the audience, who wrongly believes what no supreme court justice believes that the second amendment grants them to have the right to have any gun available on earth. >> i was raised in a house with guns, weapons, i started skeet shooting when i was 8 years old.
i was educated on the safety of guns, my father was an avid hunter, i hunted since i was 8 or 12 years old with them. >> i still can't see why any civilian, anybody in this room, in fact, needs weapons of that sort. you're not going to use them for hunting. even for home protection, semiautomatic, or an automatic weapon is one of the most inaccurate weapons out there. the sole purpose of those ar-15s, or ak-47s is put a lot of lead out in the battlefield quickly, and that is what they do. and that is what they did at sandy hook elementary school on the 14th. that was not just a killing. that was a massacre. those children and victims were shot apart. and my son was one of them. i just can't fathom why any of
us need that in our society or in our home. why do we need 30-round magazines or cartridges, there is nobody in this room here that has the capability mentally or physically to take on 20 people or 15 people where you would need 30 rounds of ammunition. there is no reason for it. that school was a beautiful place. it was like mayberry going to that school in the morning. i never saw anybody that was not happy there. and we dropped him off that morning at 9:04. i saw the clock, we walked him into the school. he gave me a hug and a kiss, and he said -- he said, and i gave him a hug and kiss back. and he said good-bye. he said i love you. and he said i love mom, too. we were supposed to go back and
make gingerbread houses that day. we never made it. 20 minutes after that, my son was dead. and there is no reason for it. there is no reason that adam lanza's mother should have had the weapons in that home, locked up or not locked up with a child that apparently had mental issues. a place to start is banning these weapons. there is no reason for these, no place on the street for them. we don't need these weapons on the street or in our homes. we don't. and i ask everybody to think about it, and everybody in this room whether you're in favor of guns or -- or in favor of banning them, to try to work together and come up with reasonable changes that work. and i think one place to start
is with the regulations on background checks. thorough background checks for everybody who purchases a weapon, resales have to have thorough background checks. i think a ban on high-capacity magazines and assault-type weapons needs to be in place. i just can't believe what happened at newtown. i dropped -- we dropped jesse off at 9:04, and an hour and a half later i was back at that school. and it was like a military installation. s.w.a.t. team members, families in hysterics. state police from all over the state. fbi -- it was unbelievable. students there looking to be reunited with their parents.
parents looking for their -- their children. i was looking for my son. i was looking for his classroom. they were never to be found. what -- some of the surviving students' parents told me, my son jesse yelled, run, run, now. he was in ms. soto's class, ten of the students survived. my son was not one of them. i hope that those words helped those children survive. we're not living in the wild west. we're not a third world nation. we have the strongest military in the world. we don't need to defend our homes with weapons like that. and -- you know, i wish -- i ask if there is anybody in this room
that can give me one reason or challenge this question, why anybody in this room needs to have one of these assault-style weapons or military weapons, or high-capacity clips -- and not one person can answer that question or give me -- >> no, no, the second amendment shall not be at risk. >> all right. >> all right. >> please, please, no comments while mr. heslin is speaking. >> some right-wing websites sprung to the defense of the hecklers insisting that they were simply answering mr. heslin's question, but of course they were not. the question he asked was, and i quote, why anybody in this room needs to have one of these all the-style weapons, military weapons or high-capacity clips. and no one in the room answered
that question. it was a why question. the best the hecklers could come up with was some quoting, phrasing of the second amendment. you hear one or two of them saying shall not be infringed, as in, a well-regulated militia, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. that is of course, not an answer to the why question, the question of why do you need a 30-round magazine or an assault weapon. and the supreme court has always held that the government can indeed ban certain specified firearms as long as the government does not ban all firearms. the supreme court, including the most conservative member, anton scalia, believes that the second amendment rights are not enfringed when the government bans certain specified weapons as it has done in the past.
heckling is when you say something stupid from the audience, and when a speaker directly asks an audience when you need 30-round magazines and assault weapons and you yell a response, which is basically i think the second amendment says i can have them. you have not answered the question about why you need them. there are plenty of legal things for sale in america that we don't need, none of us need cigarettes. if you ask me why i need cigarettes and i say to you because they're for sale i have not answered your question, i have just said something stupid. almost as stupid as smoking cigarettes. neil heslin made a solid and emotional case about why no one in this country and no one in that audience needs massacre weapons. and then he openly asked that
audience if anyone there could give him a reason why they did need massacre weapons, and not one word, not one word that the hecklers spoke was a reason why. not one word. that grieving father's question remains unanswered by the gun fanatics in that audience, who did indeed heckle him. all stations come over to mission a for a final go. no go call. this is for real this time. we are on step seven point two one two. we have entered our two minute hold. cabin venting has been inhibited.
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violence generally to the floor. >> 11 hours from now, the national rifle association's wayne lapierre will testify at a senate judiciary committee hearing about gun violence and what to do. he will say law abiding gun owners will not accept the blame for the acts of crazed gun owners. nor will the government dictate what we can lawfully own and use to protect our families. also, former congresswoman gabrielle giffords's husband, mark kelly, will testify. joining me, mark smythe, a contributor to "msnbc." i want to go the line i first quoted. wayne lapierre, this comment sounds reasonable until you think about it. law abiding gun owners will not accept blame for the acts of deranged criminals.
a law abiding gun owner is responsible for what happened in newtown, connecticut. a law abiding mother was a gun owner, by all accounts, and that law abiding gun owner couldn't control her weapons, and those weapons were eventually used to kill her and to kill all of those children and those women educators in that school. so that is what one law abiding gun owner got us. >> that is a good point, lawrence. >> and that is what neil heslin was saying in his testimony, was that that woman should never have had those weapons in that home with -- you know, knowing the condition of her kid. and so the -- the ways in which wayne lapierre tries to shatter off the debate have more holes in them than he realizes when he is trying to advance this kind of testimony.
>> you know i hope what happens, had he testifies in the committee tomorrow is that the nra presses him on the second amendment. does that mean that citizens should be able to have massive fire power to fight a future government. they would lose credibility with their own base. there is a real dangerous current fed on the internet and youtube, of people talking very threatening violent language about what would happen if congress were to impose an assault-weapons ban, and other gun control measures like that father outline, which was quite well said. and i think mr. lapierre needs to address that, including even the conspiracy theories that are circulating among gun rights activists, who claim that the